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Men are REALLY REALLY FUCKING DANGEROUS

July 1, 2008

MEN SHOULD NEVER, EVER, EVER BE LEFT ALONE WITH CHILDREN. I repeat MEN ARE DANGEROUS. REALLY FUCKING DANGEROUS. DO NOT LEAVE MEN WITH CHILDREN.

MEN

ARE

****DANGEROUS****

Gary beat his wife Karen. A lot. Karen left him many times but he refuses to let her take the children, Jack, 7, Maddie, 5 and Bon, 18 months. So she was forced to go back to him. Karen leaves him again after being bashed. Gary is left alone with the three kids. The situation is known to DoCS. DoCS do shit all. Gary puts all the children in the car and gasses them and himself.

Karen Bell survives her children. I haven’t an idea how awful this would be for her. Her three children will never grow up. And their mother is left alone, with the scars of abuse and the pain of the loss of her children.

A 69 year old man took an axe and slaughtered his wife, a 52 year old woman and their two grandchildren, a seven year old boy and a 5 year old girl. Their mother, a local police officer, was also attacked but she survived, running to the neighbours for help.

This woman also survives her children and her mother. I just can’t imagine what it would be like to know that your father, whom had been entrusted with your childrens’ care, had done something like this. How unimaginably awful.

Both of these horrific acts of violence occurred in New South Wales. The state in which I live. I can’t linked to any stories because the way these events are being reported sickens me. There is some good feminist commentary here.

Almost every week when I read the paper there are stories about men slaughtering women and children in this country which is supposedly free and egalitarian. This country which is supposedly safe. Where in the world is it safe to be a woman or child? Not Australia. Not here.

Men are dangerous here.

It is not safe here.

Men are not safe to be around. Men are dangerous.

Stay away from men. Do not leave your children with men.

Men are dangerous.

 

37 comments

  1. Allecto,

    Yes! The truth about males.

    Those events are occurring with equal frequency in North America.


  2. Oh, and here’s another one from this morning’s SMH:

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/jailed-after-sex-contract-with-daughter/2008/07/01/1214678002801.html


  3. And, from this morning’s Toronto Star:

    Rapist dad labelled dangerous offender

    TheStar.com – Canada
    July 01, 2008
    The Canadian Press

    EDMONTON–An Edmonton-area man who repeatedly raped his daughter over 14 years and had sex with the family dogs and horse has been designated a dangerous offender.

    That means the 54-year-old will be locked up in prison indefinitely.

    Justice Sterling Sanderman yesterday praised the man’s weeping daughter as a “heroine” for taking care of and protecting her younger sisters.

    The man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his daughters, cried as the judge lambasted him.

    The judge called the man’s wife an enabler, saying she was responsible for her daughters being continuously abused in their home.

    “The system didn’t fail those children, their parents failed their children,” he said.

    Sanderman ruled the man must be designated a dangerous offender after noting he is deemed to be a moderate to high risk to reoffend and rejecting any chance of him being successfully treated and controlled in the community.

    He was also sentenced to 11 1/2 years on charges of incest, bestiality and invitation to sexual touching, which will likely extend the time he must serve before being eligible for a review by corrections officials.

    According to agreed facts, the man had served a two-year jail sentence in the 1990s after being convicted of sexually assaulting his eldest daughter and his two nieces.

    After being let out, the man was allowed to go back to his family. On his second day back, he raped his then-8-year-old daughter, an event that occurred almost nightly for the next 14 years.

    Court has heard the victim tried several times to tell her mother, but then always denied it out of fear when her mother confronted her father.

    The victim said she often saw her dad having sex with their dogs and her horse. She also said he tried to make her have sex with the dog.

    ——————————–

    Note this part:


    According to agreed facts, the man had served a two-year jail sentence in the 1990s after being convicted of sexually assaulting his eldest daughter and his two nieces.

    After being let out, the man was allowed to go back to his family.

    After all, he’s their dad, eh??!!


  4. Oops – can you put in a after the word “family” in the second last sentence above?


  5. Ugh. Ugly news Mary Sunshine. Thanks for the info.


  6. Searching in my local paper’s website with search words like rape, sexual assault, battery, and murder…freakin’ scary.

    i just did it for a few minutes after reading this. not pretty. i did 2 posts on extensive examples here: http://demonista.livejournal.com/82836.html and http://demonista.livejournal.com/83131.html.

    here is a couple of the current cases in Canada:

    http://news.therecord.com/article/373150 – In Nova Scotia, a man files a class action lawsuit against the Catholic church after his brother committed suicide, sparking an investigation. “The charges involved 18 children between the ages of eight to 15.”

    http://news.therecord.com/article/371565 – asshole Paul Bernardo is looking for pity yet again. (He tortured, raped, and killed 3 young women; he had raped several others.)

    http://news.therecord.com/article/365024 and http://news.therecord.com/article/364779 – sexual and physical abuse of Native children in residential schools.

    http://news.therecord.com/article/363986 – In BC, Bouintiful is being investigated for child rape/marriage.

    http://news.therecord.com/article/354166 and http://news.therecord.com/article/353530 – consensual sex defense used by rapist. he was found guilty for some charges, got 3 years, for beating and raping her several times for refusing him anal sex. claims previous partners “asked for it”–the it was choking.

    http://news.therecord.com/article/348358 and http://news.therecord.com/article/344535- a group of people raped, beat with a wrench and sledgehammer, and killed a teenage girl. one woman was sentenced to 12 years.

    http://news.therecord.com/article/346870 – two men accused of murdering 19 year old Native woman. they have histories of violence against women

    http://news.therecord.com/article/346336 – Cambridge, Ontario man gets a couple months for possession of child pornography. “He admitted to having child pornography and ultimately showed police where to find videos, images and writings about his belief in pedophilia. He said he didn’t consider it immoral. Police seized 50 videos and 100 images of child pornography, along with a scrapbook of pornographic photos with the face of Kostas’s fantasy teenage rape victim pasted on top. The scrapbook also contained pictures and writings about his plan to kidnap and rape an Amish girl.” The videos showed children as young as three, drugged. They think he’s genuinely remorseful. What b.s.

    http://news.therecord.com/article/374987 and http://news.therecord.com/article/374464 – father and son charged with killing their daughter/sister over her not wearing hijab (a Muslim head scarf).

    http://news.therecord.com/article/374625 – man raped and murdered a 92 year old woman. he stabbed her repeatedly and slashed her throat. he got 25+ years

    http://news.therecord.com/article/374614 – man arraigned for rape and murder in 25 year old case. he did it when he was 15 to a 70 year old woman.

    these are Amerikan: http://news.therecord.com/article/372892. She was raped and tortured for 19 hours. holy shit–robert williams burned her, sliced her eyelids, tried to blind her with bleach, raped her anally and vaginally, poured boiling water on her, glued and taped her mouth shut, tied her up, set her apartment on fire and left her to die.

    http://news.therecord.com/article/343675 – pregnant women stabbed to death and baby cut from her womb

    here’s one from argentina:
    http://news.therecord.com/article/353771. the most he can get is only 16 years, for repeatedly raping the daughter he kept imprisoned, threatening her with the death of her two children he fathered.

    japan:
    http://news.therecord.com/article/351287 – marine got 4 years for kidnapping, sexually abusing child

    turkey:
    http://news.therecord.com/article/351287 – woman paralysed by her husband trying to shoot her to death. past abuse, cultural acceptance of wife abuse.

    afghanistan:
    http://news.therecord.com/article/343675 – rape, trafficking, murder, women jailed for being victimised.

    this is just a small sampling, but it’s taking too much out of me. i can post more tomorrow, if folks want.


  7. Brave post, Allecto. I often feel like saying something similar, but it takes guts, you know? I did have a quick trawl on the net to find more examples of how dangerous men are, but quickly felt like I was drowning in all the too-easily-expressed-and-condoned misogyny.

    It’s often said that human beings have done the most damage to this planet, but that’s not true. MEN have done the damage to this planet, MEN have damaged this planet so much that she may become uninhabitable at some point, MEN have caused the extinction of coutless species, MEN have wiped away hundreds and hundreds of forests to feed their ‘industry’, and MEN show the same contemptuous attitude (use it and abuse it) to women and children. Women and children have not caused the damage the planet is now suffering, they have not started the wars, and they DON’T routinely shoot, stab, axe, blind, abuse, assault, beat, slap, strike, punch men. It is MEN who do all of those things, every day, to women.

    I was on the bus coming home from town this morning, and a man and a woman got on, evidently a couple, and I noticed she had bruises on her arms, and looked in pain. Is it any wonder that, in this world we live in, my first thought when I saw those bruises was, “Did he do that to you?”

    I’m just tired. So tired of alternately resisting and absorbing (because resisting is hard work as you know) men’s hatred. So tired of it being everywhere I goddam look, and so tired of not a damn thing being done about it. Tired of everybody acting like it’s meant to be like that, it’s normal.


  8. As an American, I often hope that the domestic horrors I hear of and read of aren’t as widespread in other countries, particularly not in socially progressive ones. Thus, I am very downcast by these atrocities in New South Wales and Canada. Overall, I still hope the horror isn’t as endemic in other cultures as it is here, however. I have to hope (if this sounds sad, oh, it is! It is!). From what I know personally of incest and other abuse, I advise women I know never to let a man, related or not, be allowed unsupervised contact with children. They may think I am unfair or extreme or both, I don’t care; they need to hear and consider this.


  9. That is really horrific stuff, demonista. I know, I never do those searches because they are too traumatising.

    Debs, yes, violence against women and children is normal. I don’t understand why women still have this idea that there are only some men, who are ‘psychos’ who do these things to women and children. Makes no sense. Just read the paper.

    You know I have been thinking some more about this. Would I trust a man with my children? And the answer is no. I don’t even know if I would trust my brother with children and he is the most pro-feminist man I know in real life. There is only one man in real life that I would trust with children and he was the gay son of a lesbian feminist. He was one of my best friends in uni. He used to teach kids drama, and I tagged along to one of his lessons. He was great with them.

    But no, there is no way I would trust the majority of men with children. No way. It is one of the reasons that I hope that child care continues to be a shoddily paid career. Because I do not want men in child care. I also think that female teachers should continue to outnumber male teachers in school. The less men children are exposed to, the better.


  10. No I wouldn’t trust a random men with children either Allecto. I might trust my brothers but only for this reason – I’ve known them all my life, they’re all older than me, and if they were abusers they would probably have abused me. But I’ve experience CSA myself from men who appeared ‘harmless, and nice, and normal’. So I think you’re right. I just wouldn’t want to take the chance. Not because I think all men are abusers. But because I think there’s no way of telling which ones are and which ones aren’t.


  11. I wish we could re-imagine the work place, so we could have on sight crèche’s with tv connections, so mums could just glance up and see their infants playing with rent a granny or nanny.
    Maybe one day offices will be built with internal courtyards where all the children of the workers could play safely when not in school.

    Will all women apartment blocks, complete with crèche and community paid for built in baby sitters, ever exist; after all Lionesses look after each others cubs along with their own, giving other mothers the opportunity to hunt.

    Everything would be different in a women’s world.


  12. Honestly, this attitude gives those men the victory. “Men are evil, let’s stay away from them” tells women to be afraid of men, that men have the power and the only way we can do is stay away from them, because we’re so powerless. Men who abuse women want them to live in fear.

    I’m not afraid of any man and I refused to be bullied. When I was denied study in a bible class because I was a girl, I stood at the door every single day as protest and insisted that I be allowed to study in my choice. I won because I said I wasn’t afraid of them.

    “The less men children are exposed to, the better.”

    What about male children? Won’t that teach them that something is wrong with them, because they need to be protected from older versions of themselves? “Am I going to grow up to be a monster?” And won’t that turn into a self fulfilling prophesy? Isn’t providing male children with male role models who show acceptance, respect, love and appreciation a better philosophy?

    Believe me, I look forward to prosecuting men who abuse women when I get my law degree. I have no pity for them whatsoever. But I don’t want to live in fear. I want to live in hope.


  13. I saw all those links and read the summaries of all of those abuses and rapes and traumas and my head was just spinning.

    :.(….

    How sad and infuriating.


  14. I agree wholeheartedly. Men just can’t be trusted with children. For another horrible example just look up the Kathleen Folbigg incident, where that horrible man killed ALL FOUR of his children


  15. But I’ve experience CSA myself from men who appeared ‘harmless, and nice, and normal’. So I think you’re right. I just wouldn’t want to take the chance. Not because I think all men are abusers. But because I think there’s no way of telling which ones are and which ones aren’t.

    Exactly. The man who sexually assaulted/raped me was a feminist even. Nice, normal men are still dangerous. But more to the point even men who are not abusive can still instill harmful values into children. Men are the gatekeepers of gender, men are the gender regulators. One of my friends growing up had a nice, non-abusive dad. But he was still very controlling of his wife and children. He didn’t take up his share of the housework and he treated his daughters like pricesses. I hated him, just as much as any other man. He wasn’t a killer or an abuser, but I do think he had a very negative influence on his children.

    Time and time again in my work with children I will see nice, non-abusive men regulating their child’s gender. Women do it too but no where near as aggressively. Also I hate the way that women defer to men in child care situations. I have worked with men before. Once I even liked the guy and he had good skills with kids. BUT all of the women I worked with would gush over him and treat him oh, so special, because he was a man and therefore he was better than the rest of us. This has REALLY negative effects on the well-being of boys and girls. What do you think they learn when they see a man being lauded and praised for his work, on the basis of his gender, and they see women working just as hard and getting ignored and undervalued? It is an awful situation to be in, all of these men and women congratulating a man for being a man. It makes me so fucking angry.

    What about male children? Won’t that teach them that something is wrong with them, because they need to be protected from older versions of themselves? “Am I going to grow up to be a monster?” And won’t that turn into a self fulfilling prophesy?

    Actually the research that I have done and my own personal experience is that male children who are brought up by women are happier, healthier and far more well-ajusted than men who are exposed to men growing up. Men brought up by women have better and longer lasting relationships, whether gay or straight. Read Growing up Under Patriarchy by Shere Hite. But in my own experience my 2 brothers who were brought up by me, my mother and my two sisters, are far, far happier, healthier, have a greater awareness of themselves and their emotions, they have better self concepts etc than their peers. The most loving, caring man I’ve met was brought up by a lesbian feminist. So it is my very, very strong opinion that exposure to men is very bad for boys. Certainly, in the work that I do I see A LOT of boys that are really, really suffering from being exposed to their fathers. These boys have no respect for women and girls, they hate them, but they are also seriously fucked in the head from what their fathers put them through. I can’t really go into more detail than that but it is pretty heart-rending stuff. I have often come home crying about the things these boys are going through but it also makes me pretty scared too, of how dangerous these boys are going to be when they are older.

    Isn’t providing male children with male role models who show acceptance, respect, love and appreciation a better philosophy?

    Yep, sure. That is a beautiful thought but where the hell are you going to find these mythological male role models? How will you make sure that they are not rapists or murderers? I’ve often thought about this. Maybe you could reprogram them with Andrea Dworkin and Audre Lorde. Force them to read heaps of radical feminist texts until they leave their male conditioning behind. It would be a lot of work though, and there would be no guarantee of success. And there is stil the problem that I mentioned earlier that these men would then be lauded for being Special Men. And women’s work would be devalued and ignored and erased yet again.


  16. Here is one from the UK (via MarySunshine, thx)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/7485698.stm

    17yo male abuses a 5yo girl, left in his care for just over an hour. He showed no remorse.

    Polly made the (excellent) point that it is in not being able to tell which men are dangerous, and which are not. Most women and children are attacked by men that they know, not strangers. Most women are raped by men that are known to them.

    The main reasons that this situation can continue are:
    The victim cannot believe it was done to them by someone they know, the victim (usually rightly) thinks no-one will believe them if they tell. (Under-reporting perpetuating under-reporting)
    If they do tell, then likely the perp will still get off.

    Best to stay away from men, never be alone with one.
    As a group, there are too many untrustworthy ones, and absolutely no way to tell which are the non-dangerous ones. You would think that the non-dangerous ones would be outraged by this smear, but they benefit by the upholding of patriarchy. If it had no benefit to them, then they would be far more likely to make sure the dangerous ones were punished.


  17. I kind of think you’re missing the point Hotspur, with respect. Can I suggest a book to you (a novel) – ‘Bodily Harm’ by Margaret Atwood. Which ends with these exact words – “She is afraid of men, because men are dangerous”.

    On a practical level, I don’t live my life cowering indoors, refusing to have a social life because to do so would mean I had to walk home alone at night. But I know women who do. And I’ve heard of women who’ve been raped and been told by the police – yes that’s the people who are supposed to uphold the law – that it was their fault because they walked home alone at night FFS!

    Men are dangerous. If men were drugs, everyone would be calling for them to be banned.


  18. Hotspur said:

    “Won’t that teach them [male children] that something is wrong with them, because they need to be protected from older versions of themselves? “Am I going to grow up to be a monster?” And won’t that turn into a self fulfilling prophesy? Isn’t providing male children with male role models who show acceptance, respect, love and appreciation a better philosophy?”

    My answer to all of these questions is NO.


  19. You know, I don’t think that recognising that men, as a class, pose a danger to the well-being and safety of women and children is the same as saying “women should all cower before men.” Actually, feminists are the bravest women I know, and they are the ones who often experience tons of slurs, harrassments, threats, real-life violence BECAUSE they are standing up to men.

    But then, all women are vulnerable to this kind of behaviour from men anyway, simply because they’re women.

    “Men are the gatekeepers of gender” – so true, and just by doing this, they do uncountable harm, even if they are supposedly ‘good’ and ‘loving’ men.


  20. Thanks for this very interesting post and comments.
    I think the vast majority of men are very dangerous, but there is a small part of me that feels confused.
    As a child, I hated all adults, for I felt both men and women had betrayed me. This was not true. Only one woman abuse me, whilst I have lost count of the men that treated like I had no rights.
    I have a huge anger that women always give men the benefit of the doubt, so your thread is very refreshing.
    I believe that the men who claimed to against violence against women and children need to do more than saying the right words or going on marches.
    They need to not complain if a woman or child chooses not to be with them. They need to realise that their presence can trigger. They need to take a back seat.
    But, of course , these “good men” rarely listen or get educated about why women and children can’t be with them.
    By non-action, these men give permission to the majority of men that choose to control women and children through mental, physical and sexual violence.


  21. Haven’t read all the comments, just wanted to suggest you turn off the automatically generated post that come at the end of your post. One of the ones I got suggested is titled “WHY FATHERS LEAVE!!!” I don’t think that post is very nice to read. Judging by the title I’d guess it’s a load of misogynistic bullshit.


  22. [...] risk: Should we avoid men we don’t know? Jump to Comments Allecto has a post up that has gotten me to thinking. I used to watch To Catch A Predator with Davetavius, and we [...]


  23. I believe that the men who claimed to against violence against women and children need to do more than saying the right words or going on marches.

    I agree, Rebecca.

    Thanks Mortality. I didn’t know that you could do that before, hide the links, that is.


  24. Yes, most men are dangerous. Especially within a pornographic culture, we constantly live in fear of rape and sexual abuse.

    But I do not believe that men were born to be that way. I believe that men were made to become that way, through socialization to masculinity. That means repressions of feelings of empathy toward women.

    And I would bet that most of the men mentioned in the articles talked about in your post & your comment thread, Allecto, (the men committing horrifying crimes against women & children) used pornography.

    However, I don’t buy it when people say “these are just psychos, crazy men”. Any man, in this patriarchal society, is capable of sexual violence.


  25. Allecto, have you heard about Kyle Paine? Apparently he’s been arrested for child porn and sexual assault. I’ll be posting about it shortly, but it seemed so unfortunately germane to this post that I thought I’d tell you about it here.


  26. To Jack,

    The page, To Men clearly states that I only accept supportive analytical comments from pro-radical feminist men only. Your comment was very clearly NOT indicative of a of a pro-radical feminist viewpoint.

    allecto


  27. Urgh. Do you mean the Kyle Paine on my blogroll???? That’s fucked up.


  28. I thought of this post when I heard about Kyle Payne too.


  29. Allecto – I often wonder how we will bring about the revolution with men’s feet on our necks. Part of me worries that we can’t do it without them since they have all the power and the chances of them releasing that power is, well, slim-to-none. Yet at the same time, I don’t want to pander to them AT ALL.

    Do you think that the revolution could be brought about by feminist seperatists and lesbians raising male children? How hard would it be to keep them from being socialised? Could it be done? How many generations do you think there would need to be before we could start expecting real change?

    (I’m asking you this because I often read your blog here and respect your analysis a lot)


  30. Jack,

    I am not interested in any kind of dialogue with you until you understand RADICAL feminism. Saying ‘I am pro-feminist’ then making long comments that are absolutely ignorant of radical feminist theory is really bloody stupid. Go, do some reading, come back when you can name and quote at least ten Radical Feminists (and make sure they aren’t all white).

    Jennifer-Ruth,

    Thanks. It is nice to know that other women are getting something out of my writing. To be honest I don’t know what the solution is. All I know is how I feel about things myself. And how I choose to live my life. I absolutely do not believe that there is only one true path towards women’s liberation. I believe that all women are walking towards their own liberation in different ways. I believe that different ways are necessary for different women.

    There are some women out there doing fantastic things, working with men against misogyny, and creating a better world. I FULLY support these women and I fully support the work that they are doing. There are male allies of the women’s liberation movement, I believe that strongly. I believe that WOMEN were instrumental in guiding these men in thier path to becoming allies and I think that is important work.

    I also think that separatists and lesbians raising radical male and female children is also awesome. I fully support the work of those women and children in creating a safer world for women and children.

    There are women, working with each other, building up strong communities of women, to make changes now, in our own lives, which is perhaps one of the most powerful and certainly the most immediate revolution.

    I don’t have children and I would never dictate to another woman how she should choose to raise her child. All I can say is that from my perspective, having worked with children and families for seven years now, being a survivor of male terrorism in the home, is that men are dangerous. I still trust some men. My brother and I are very close, but I minimise contact with men I don’t know and I am wary about associating with men until I know their political perspective on women. A good litmus test is whether or not they use porn.

    So if this is how I feel about my own safety, and I am a grown woman, how much more vulnerable are children? A big thing that worries me is the safety of girls from their male peers. There have been numerous studies done, showing a marked increase in the amount of sexual assault, rape and sexual harrassment committed by male children. This is a really disturbing trend. In my own workplace on two occassions a male child has pulled down his pants to expose himself to female children. The male children use highly misogynist language as weapons, the play of the male children is highly violent. The incresing sexualisation of children’s media is just so highly damaging, it isn’t possible to quantify. If I were a mother I would find it extremely difficult to trust my child, whether male or female, to the company of male children who have been raised by violent men and on violent, sexist media. I wouldn’t trust them in the care of male teachers or sport coaches. Nor with the fathers of other children.

    For me this issue isn’t one about what is best for women’s revolution, it is simply about the child’s safety. But really, all of this is a moot point, since I don’t have children. Who knows what the practicalities are like for the majority of mothers out there. There are so many mothers in absolutely desperate circumstances. The courts have become so hostile to the rights of the child and so protective of so-called “father’s rights” that I know many cases where women do not want the child’s father to have contact and the courts give the fathers access. I know of a 12 year old girl who was raped by her father, he was acquitted because the girl could not remember what colour her undies were the day her father raped her. The custody courts gave the father access to both of his daughters until the 12 year old threatened to commit suicide.

    Mothers very often try to be protective of their children but this system is set up in the interest of the fathers, so no child is safe.

    But your question was, can we have a revolution without men? And I will answer yes, absolutely. Revolution is about freeing ourselves and other women. I believe men very often hinder the struggle rather than help it along.

    Each and every one of us needs to decide for herself what is right for herself. Decide how much you wish to pander to men and what constitutes crossing the line. For me, I am happy to have contact and dialogue with pro-radical feminist men. But I am fully supportive of women who choose more contact with men than that, and also of women who choose separatism… both are valid feminist choices in my opinion, there is no right way.

    Um, does that answer your question? I think I went on quite a bit there! Sorry.


  31. Allecto -

    Thank you so much for your reply. Most definitely you answered my question! In fact, it made me think quite a bit, especially when you said:

    “I absolutely do not believe that there is only one true path towards women’s liberation. I believe that all women are walking towards their own liberation in different ways.”

    - it reminded me of your post about liberation (as opposed to equality). Yes, I also think that liberation is the way forward and I try to do something every day that lifts me from the female box that society wants to place me in.

    I have to admit I have never met a pro-radical feminist man (although I have met [pro-feminist men). I think you are right that most men are more likely to hinder us than to move with us towards liberation. Personally, I think men will be happier and less violent if liberation occured, but power is something that it is hard to let go of, even if it isn’t good for you.

    I try to trust men, I really do. I experienced male terrorism, as you call it, when I was between the ages of 8-10. The men where teenagers. I don’t like to talk about it much, but I wanted to here. Because of this experience I would find it very difficult to leave my (hypothetical!) children around other male children…simply because it seems that men are socialised to believe that they can take what they want and do what they want. It may sound strange, but I have personally forgiven because I just couldn’t carry on with my life if I held those memories negatively. Yet still it effects me to make me suspicious of men in general.

    Sometimes I worry that I have been too forgiving, or I let the men I interact with daily get away with saying/doing things I shouldn’t. I guess I should relax a bit.

    You say: “Each and every one of us needs to decide for herself what is right for herself.”

    This reminds me of “A person must not do what a person can not do but person must do what a person feels they must.” from Marge Piercy’s Woman on the Edge of Time (that is not an exact quote, i’m going from memory here).

    Anyway, sorry for a appearing from lurker status all of a sudden like that. I really appreciate you reply. It was refreshingly honest and open.


  32. Jennifer-Ruth,

    I have no problem with radical women delurking on my blog. Thank you for your questions and comments.

    I only know of one pro-radical feminist man and he is my brother. So they aren’t exactly thick on the ground. I just know that they can and do exist. Other than my brother, I have pretty much zero contact with men. It isn’t solely about trust, I just find men pretty boring in general.

    I don’t try to trust men. I don’t have any particular need for men in my life. I don’t work with men. I am only politically active on women’s issues at the moment. I socialise with lesbians. So men just don’t figure in my life at all. The only males I have to deal with are children. And that is the way I like it. I doubt that will change in the future.


  33. I know a few men whose political views might match that of feminist or even radical feminist, but who are reluctant to apply the label to themselves because of the negative stigma that has been attached to the movement in mainstream pop culture. Heck, many high-profile women avoid the label.

    I feel that one step toward equality is to work on rehabilitating the image of feminism, which many people have come to see as a negative and/or exclusive “girl’s club”. Which I guess is what you’re getting at. Sorry to go off topic.


  34. the “need” to “rehabilitate” feminism is grossly overrated. the way i see it, if most people identify as feminists, the movement has become co-opted and doesn’t have any promise of revolution. i don’t think feminism should be a “girls’ club”, but if it becomes one other than a wimmin and other humyns club, i’m part of some other movement (eg women’s liberation as distinct from mainstream feminism). this is not to detract from valid criticisms of feminism, namely classism, racism, and and “pro-sex feminism,” but to say feminism should NOT be made nice and pertty. if they too scared to claim the label, their politics are probably not scary enough to the status quo.


  35. Oh, this reminds me so painfully…
    When my child was an infant I realized one day not long after my nearly fatal birth-giving experience that his father wasn’t going to do anything to help us survive – not work, not apply for any sort of financial relief, nothing. Having no choice I dragged my weak, anemic body back to work on the street (entertaining tourists for tips) so we could survive, pumping the milk from my breasts before I left to feed my son while I was gone, and leaving him in his father’s “care” since we couldn’t afford a babysitter. I was told by more than one person that while I was gone his father would scream at him for crying – scream – at an infant not yet able to even crawl. I didn’t know what to do, as I was alone in the world except for him. So I stayed for another year and a half until I found his diary lying open on the kitchen table one day and saw how he’d decided (wrongly) I was cheating on him and he couldn’t live with me anymore and the thought of having to share my pussy with another man depressed him so much he wanted to die, but he couldn’t leave his precious son alone with a bitch like me, so he was going to kill us both first. So I left.
    I haven’t been able to find any kind of a life where I can avoid men entirely. But I shield my son from men as much as I can.
    Yet he will be a man someday. What kind of man? I don’t know. It worries me.


  36. Oh, Amanata what a horrible situation. I’m so sorry you went through that. Thank goodness you found out and left!!! Yeah, my father used to threaten to hurt us kids if my mother didn’t do what he told her to do. He also intimated on more than one occasion that he thought about killing us. There were guns in his bedroom cupboard that he used to obsess over. All very scary. Whenever I hear about women and children being slaughtered by husbands and father’s I always, always think of my childhood. How those women and children could have been me if…


  37. im really sorry to hear this i wish there was something we could do.



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