The Teachings of Internet Pornography

February 11, 2009

Caroline Norma in response to this article by Helen Razer.

Lessons in internet pornography Helen Razer is lucky she doesn’t live in China. The Chinese government last week shut down 244 pornography sites in a rolling campaign that it declares will be ‘no flash in the pan’. The Chinese government has made a bold public commitment to follow though on a promise to monitor and suppress the distribution of pornography, not just through the internet, but also via ‘mobile phone games, online novels and radio programs’ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28752383/).

How would Razer fare as a Chinese woman living under a government that restricts the ability of its citizens to see pictures of men sexually penetrating women in a thousand different ways, using a thousand different implements? Razer is already worried that the Rudd government’s plan to suppress the distribution of child pornography will interfere with her pornography consumption. Imagine if Australia followed China’s lead and even suppressed pornography made out of women. Imagine the constraints that this would impose on Razer’s life!

Read the whole article on the STOP Australia blog. It is totally worth the read.


  1. Almost all porn is child pornography, really. Mainstream porn magazine almost never feature women even in the advanced age of the… early twenties, and many of them capitalize on having titles like “barely legal!” highlighting that their models, while all still supposedly adult, are just so barely adult that they may as well still be children. Furthermore, porn started the stupid trend of women shaving off their pubic hair in an attempt to look less adult, and then picks women with body types that are less curvy, thus further evoking images of a naked child.
    And of course there are all the ACTUAL, legal children in porn. Some are trafficked. Foreign porn imported to the US is very popular here, with men pretending it is cool. Foreign images of underage women being raped are very popular on the internet, it is difficult for our government to ascertain their ages.
    It’s easy to see what the real aim of the pro-porn people is when you step back and look at what they are really saying. After a law which said – oh no! – that pornographers had to have ACTUAL PROOF that their “actors” and “models” were over 18, like, they’d photocopied their ID when they started working for them, just like you do for every other legitimate job in America (and they claim to be legitimate employers), they began screaming about censorship.

    “‘This is an attack, we are back to the dark ages of witch hunts and instead of burning innocent people at the stake they are putting them in jail and ripping apart their businesses and families,’ wails the Web site of Lisa S. Lawless, whose company specializes in videos featuring female orgasms. Casualties so far, if anyone will miss them, include the aptly named Bound & Gagged, which describes itself as “The world’s greatest male bondage magazine.””

    “”The adult industry prepares for a legal battle that may determine whether it can survive against the onslaughts of the Bush Administration’s anti-adult agenda,” intones a recent story in AVN, the preeminent industry trade publication, amid ads for something called Naughty America and Hotmovies.com.”

    How hard could it really be for them to have records on their models? Some argue that well, they use pictures from other people who may not have verified the age properly. And why would they not have done so? From the collective screaming of the porn industry, claiming they can’t possibly go to the extensive, terrible task of COPYING SOMEONE’S ID, it sounds awfully like they know damn well that a sizable proportion of the “actresses” are just enslaved, abused children. I have personally known strippers as young as 15, and very few over the age of 21. The average prostitute begins working the streets in her early teens. There is no reason to believe the porn industry is any different.

  2. I read both, and I have to admit, I’m left a bit confused. Granted, I’m Canadian, and don’t have much of an understanding of australian politics….but how would an internet pornography bill stop women from, should they so choose (and I have no idea why they would, but what the hell, eh?) from being anally penetrated while having their heads flushed in a toilet? there were probably people who thought that was a good idea before internet pornography was available. How would it stop men from talking about it? The only real change it would make would be to prevent images of such things from being seen….now, whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion. However, I don’t think the causality is as direct as suggested.

  3. Yeah, I hear you, amanata. Of course both Caroline Norma and myself are both totally opposed to all pornography. The fact is that it is highly unlikely that Australia will even be able to pass legislation to restrict ‘child porn’ from being traded and downloaded… let alone any other kind of porn.

  4. Well, fop, I very much doubt that women just wake up one morning and think… “Gee, I really feel like having my head flushed down a toilet while being anally raped today. I’ll just go out and find some nice young man to degrade, humiliate and possibly drown me.”

    Men coerce, force, condition women into performing in pornography, where they control what happens and what the woman will be subjected to. They then put these images on the internet and men from all over the world watch and wank to it. But then these men have those warped ideas to and want to subject a woman to that too. So, if their wives/girlfriends are not amenable to the idea they have a few choices: they can rape their wives and girlfriends; they can rape women in prostitution instead; or they can kidnap and rape a woman. Whichever way the story ends, men with seriously screwed up notions is walking around, thinking about shoving women’s heads into toilets and getting turned on by it.

    Caroline’s point was that the less pornography that men have access to via the internet, the safer this world is for women and children. And I happen to totally agree with her.

  5. “Of course both Caroline Norma and myself are both totally opposed to all pornography.”

    *nods* I know. But I guess my basic point is all the pro-porn people who claim they are totally into legal, adult, consensual porn, if they were to be truly honest and live by this, would find their collections suddenly almost bare.

  6. Fop – would anyone think of such bizarro sexual activities on their own? You can’t deny people imitate porn. Pubic waxing wasn’t standard 20 years ago. It is now.

  7. Well you can deny it, but you’d be wrong.

  8. Polly Styrene. Sure I can, if for no other reason than if people needed pornography to think up strange sexual practices, there would be no pornography depicting said practices in the first place. Where did the Marquis de Sade get his ideas? Most likely from his own strange and twisty imagination. Pubic waxing I can’t comment on, since I don’t know where and when it started and if it was pornographers or somebody else who first thought of it…..though I think I once read somewhere that the practice of pubic hair removal has been going on for a while, in some form or other.

    on an unrelated topic, the fact that you use the name Polly Styrene makes me really rather happy.

  9. Well you probably don’t know why I use the name Polly Styrene LeFop, since you’ve obviously got some insulting connotations. “White lightweight and toxic’ Can I presume you’re the same person who said that elsewhere? You need to improve your knowledge of popular culture.

    What I actually said was that you can’t deny people imitate pornography. Yes pubic hair removal happened before it was widely featured in porn. It became MAINSTREAM because of porn. Human beings are influenced by the things they see, particularly on screen, otherwise millions of women wouldn’t have had their haircut like Jennifer Aniston.

  10. Oh and one more thing – oh bondage up yours.

  11. Yes, of course people imitate pornography. I think that comment about Sade is moot. Sade didn’t have a sick and twisted imagination… he had a male imagination, which is, given that we live under male supremacy, is, by its very nature, sick and twisted, as it requires the subordination of women to men. Sick and twisted ideas do not exist in a vacuum. They are almost always related to culture and oppression.

    Oh and if fop is abusing you elsewhere Polly, their comments will no longer be welcome here.

  12. I can’t think when I’ve ever abused Polly Styrene. in point of fact, I’m relatively certain I’ve politely disagreed on one or two points and complimented her on her choice of name, which is either a witty play on words or an homage to a punk singer. I’m not sure, but I think that might have been the first time I’ve spoken to her directly. I’m not sure how “on an unrelated topic, the fact that you use the name Polly Styrene makes me really rather happy” can be construed as an insult, though I do apologize if it has insulting undertones of which I was unaware. It certainly wasn’t my intention to do so.

    If it helps, I have nothing against punk singers, or, for that matter, aromatic polymers, which are at very least recyclable and make very good seeding trays.

  13. Sorry lefop, us lesbian feminists tend to get abused a lot and sometimes we think people are being mean even when they are not. I didn’t think you were insulting her choice of name but obviously someone with a similar name has done so in the past and Polly thought it may have been you? Anyway, since you have always been respectful in discussions here, I am going to assume that you are not the person who Polly was talking about and your comments are still welcome.

    And I’ve always wanted to ask you, are you female? Why do you go by ‘fop’? Does it mean anything? You don’t have to answer, I’m just a bit curious.

  14. No worries. Frankly, I’m more than a little pissed that somebody with a name similar to mine is being mean to people. I know that I don’t have copyright on “fop” or any conceivable alterations of the word, but i have been going by fop, thefop, or lefop for a very long time, and I’m rather protective of it as a nickname.

    on which topic, and it’s rather silly, but my name actually comes from Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman. There’s a throwaway character who lasts all of one page called “The Fop With No Name”, which I thought was rather witty when I first read it, so I made an email adress, which is now defunct, “thefopwithnoname AT eudoramail”. My roommate picked up on that, and started calling me “the fop”, and then eveybody else did as well, so I spent the majority of my university career being called “fop”. It kind of stuck in my self-identity.

  15. Polly, where did you find out that pubic hair removal became mainstream as a result of pornography? I’d be interested to read more on it.

  16. While I agree that porn is disgusting and detrimental, one of the main arguments against having the government involved in holding the moral reigns of society is the “slippery slope.” For example, say the government blocked all porn sites for society’s greater good. That seemed successful enough, so why not target political fringe sites along the lines of this one? That’s for the greater good and peace of society too, right?

    What’s the real motivation for these politicians? They seem to be responding to a right-wing outcry that TV, the internet, and movies should be fit “for the children.” These kinds of actions have never turned out well for feminism, whose agenda may look similar on a superficial level. The end (or reform) of porn should come about from a cultural change, which I know seems almost impossible at times, not a government-mandated one.

  17. Sonja, this is the *only* comment of yours that I will approve until you publish and/or respond to the comment I left on your livejournal. Why the hell are you reading my blog?

  18. fop, I should have guessed you were a fan of Gaiman’s. *rolls eyes* lol!

    Yep, you guessed it. I am not a Gaiman fan. Ah, well. BTW, I noticed how you avoided the female question. I guess you’ll just keep me guessing there. My guess is that you are female because you haven’t done the whole: “I have a penis and well… huff, huff… I’m nice. No, really, I am. My girlfriend/mother/sister says so. And besides, you’re crazy and mean. And I don’t like you, so there. Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah.” *pout, sulk, pout*

    That is generally what teh boyz sound like when they stumble across my blog. Although, if you are male then that’s cool. Was just wondering.

  19. I tend to obfuscate the gender issue online. It’s all due to the first women’s studies prof I ever had…she was one of those particular feminists who maintains that gender as we know it is a construct, and that *sex* is largely a matter of plumbing. That is, of course, an oversimplification…..that way of describing it completely discounts, for example, the experiences of the transsexual/transgender community….but it does well enough as a summary. She was a major influence on my life, and I’ve held similar opinions since. Unfortunately, in the real world, people see me an put me into one particular mental box. On the internet, I have the freedom to be as genderqueer as I damn well like. I hope that isn’t a problem…..I could go on for a great deal of time, but this isn’t the place for that. I started my own blog for that kind of thing.

    For what it’s worth, I don’t think you’re mean.

    I like Gaiman, probably because I’m a weirdo goth-listening geek. Unlike many of my compatriotes in geekdom, I don’t think that other people have to like what I like. Hell, I *still* like Firefly, but I also enjoy your blog. Just a for instance.

  20. Ah, yes. You’ll notice that I asked about your biological sex, ‘Are you female?’ Not your gender, ‘Are you a woman?’ There is a difference. Hence, I was asking about you plumbing, so to speak, not your gender. Your women studies professor sounds like a total pomo (post-modernist). I’m not a big fan of what they tend to think feminism is. In fact, I think the pomo’s stole the most radical ideas about sex, gender and sexuality from radical feminists and then leached them of their world-altering potential.

    Radical feminists were the first ones to talk about gender as a social construct. We were the first ones to analyse gender socialisation as a powerful and highly damaging tool of the patriarchy. We were the first ones to articulate the potential for a genderless society. But we don’t see gender as being a mode of performance (as the pomo’s do) we see it as a way of organising society, with male-bodied peoples on the top and female-bodied peoples on the the bottom. It is essentially about power.

    In regards to genderqueer. Well I used to call myself queer. Used to believe in gender neutral pronouns and fucking with gender and all that pomo stuff. I see the attraction of that. But ultimately I think it is a bit useless. Women gaining the right to wear pants hasn’t stopped rape. Women cutting their hair short doesn’t stop them from being beaten by their husbands. I think we need a far more fundamental change in our society before we can move beyond gender. Despite the fact that gender is not real, female-bodied peoples still suffer from the very real effects of its fucked up ideological power. But you have the right to call yourself what you want. I disagree with you not owning your privilege if you are male. I also disagree with you not owning and sharing your sisterhood with me if you are female. I don’t, however, consider it a problem, that I disagree with the genderqueer stuff.

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